BHO backs mosque on ground zero.

[Rapier1772]

Uh oh, here comes another mosque thread to get locked :skep:
Remember this one? viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8144" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[gotants]

Why at ground zero? Build it a mile away and all is good. Its not like Temple Mount in Jerusalem where the place is sacred to both Jews and Muslims. Ground zero, and building a mosque there speaks volumes of the muslim religion and what their goals are.

Barry's position on this matter speaks clearly on how he has no clue how most Americans feel about this. Dumbass.

[jgreenberg01]

Why at ground zero? Build it a mile away and all is good. Its not like Temple Mount in Jerusalem where the place is sacred to both Jews and Muslims. Ground zero, and building a mosque there speaks volumes of the muslim religion and what their goals are.

Barry's position on this matter speaks clearly on how he has no clue how most Americans feel about this. Dumbass.

Yeah, it was me who started the original thread... guilty as charged. Bearing in mind my EXTREME opposition to the location of this mosque, it may come as a surprise that I believe that BO's stance on the matter is understandable as well as one that any politician who understands our laws should say.

They do have the right to build on private property. Is it right? In my heart of hearts I believe that this move by the Cordoba Initiative is divisive and provocative to say the least. The proximity to Ground Zero will do anything but create productive interfaith discussions as claimed by Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf (IMHO). It would be nice if his comments about America playing a role in 9/11 and his support of sharia law were made public, but our media will not broadcast that (although I did see a Fox interview with the imam's wife where some of it was brought up).

As for BO... this is something that he is obligated to say, no head of state would say otherwise (I believe).

[EARS]

BO approving the Mosque being built at 9/11 center area? Nothing surprising about that. He after all the "Muslim President".

[SHEEPDOG]

He is the ANTI-CHRIST! We are at war. Why don't we act like it? Why don't we stop all this politicly correct BS! Read the Karan and tell me how peace loving these people are. We need to grow up and look outside the bubble. People in this country will do the right thing.

[CenCalSplicer]

Do I think it's right to have it there? No. From what I have been hearing and reading there have been muslim places of worship there before the 9/11 attacks and that we should prove to the world that we are the bigger people and let it go ahead and be built. While I may disagree with that train of thought, it is a matter for the populace of NYC and the surrounding area to decide. A better choice would be for the Cordoba Initiative to find a more user friendly site some place a little further from the epicenter of the attack. Their insistance on cramming Islam down our throats and in our face everyday is insulting to every victim and family member of a victim. Let Islam concede for once instead. We always back down for them, I feel its their turn.

[Rapier1772]

If you ask islam - it is never their turn to back down

[CenCalSplicer]

:agree: It seems to be a no win situation for America.

[bayhawk2]

Barrack Obama is the Pesident.He,as any President ever,will not
refuse a mosque or church to be built.Anywhere.It's not his
place.Though I don't agree with it being built,mainly due to the sensitivity
of what happened on 9/11,it brings in a seperation of church and state.I know the idiots building
it don't believe that Muslims flew those planes on 9/11,but the same
goes for the KKK.They swear up and down that the Holocaust was all made
up.Idiots.If we refuse the rights for some Americans,then we put a hole in our
Constitution.The freedom of speech,the freedom of religion.The freedom to assemble.
We never won't to give that up.No matter how much we may disagree with things.

[f3rr37]

...it brings in a seperation of church and state

I know this isn't 100% on topic... however when someone mentions it, I think they should be informed about it.
There is nothing in the constitution about separation of church and state. The First Amendement is as follows, word for word:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

No where does it separate church and state, it simply means that Congress cannot make law that is favorable or unfavorable to religion, and also protects the right to freely exercise it.

The separation of church and state argument always comes up when someone mentions government and religion. It simple doesn't exist ANYWHERE in our founding documents. It was merely mentioned in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to some Baptists in Connecticut:
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.

That is the only mention of such a thing. This does not mean that government cannot support a religion, such as the displaying of religious text or symbols in government buildings. It just means what I said before... that Congress cannot make law that is favorable or unfavorable to religion, and also protects the right to freely exercise it.

.02

[CenCalSplicer]

Obama has said that religious freedom allows the mosque to be built, but without commenting on the wisdom of building one two blocks from ground zero.

He never really supported it. Just failed to address the issue completely. It frankly isn't an issue that the government should be getting their hands into. Let NYC handle it and deal with the repercussions of whatever decision is rendered. Amendment 1 is pretty clear on the issue of religion and this is a chance for the Cordoba Initiative to make the best choice for their cultural center and the feelings of New Yorkers.

Its their right through the purchase of private property to build what they want, but making a decision solely on that fact is a bit dangerous. Even the best intentions can be misguided at times. Only time will tell. Another classic case of BHO straddling the fence.

my 2 cents for whatever its worth

[SHEEPDOG]

If people don't want it built it doesn't have to be. If people would put God before money it would never happen. If the contractors don't build it, the laborers don't show up, if the material suppliers don't send them, and the truckers don't deliver etc.
It would never happen. :furious:

[CenCalSplicer]

Good luck with that happening. Money talks and they could always get all muslim contractors to build it and thus possibly begins a race/religious war. I think the a new location should be looked and and then everyone is happy

[ddouglas]

This is a really tricky problem. On the one hand, we have a Constitution that guarantees freedom of religion. On the other hand, we have a group of muslims who hate the US and what it stands for, and they want to build a mosque near ground zero. The do-gooders will whine, holler and sue--probably successfully--if the mosque is stopped for political reasons. Islam has a tradition of building monuments on the site of their conquests and the NY mosque is just that: a monument to celebrate the destruction of the WTT. A real pickle for the United States, isn't it: act contrary to the law, or allow a group that hates the US to rub our noses in their achievement?

[CenCalSplicer]

:agree: Well said

[SHEEPDOG]

The government certainly didn't have a problem with religious freedom when they attacked, murdered and burned eighty children at Waco or prosecuting radical Mormons in Texas and Arizona. They are all "peace loving islamist" right up to the time they plant a bomb or fly an airplane into a building. We are at war! Cancel the visas. deport the illegals. Lets start acting like we are at war and quit pandering to these people. Knock knock they are here. We need to do something other than build monuments to them. Maybe next time it will be a million people, then we will wake up.

[flyingirish04]

I have said my piece on this numerous times. You can't suspend the constitution to suit your sentiments. You just can't. Would it be more appropriate to place it elsewhere, yeah, but the President is right (I loathe the man, but he is). I don't like it, but I hate the idea of the government telling anyone what they can do with their property.

[flyingirish04]

Why at ground zero? Build it a mile away and all is good. Its not like Temple Mount in Jerusalem where the place is sacred to both Jews and Muslims. Ground zero, and building a mosque there speaks volumes of the muslim religion and what their goals are.

Barry's position on this matter speaks clearly on how he has no clue how most Americans feel about this. Dumbass.

Yeah, it was me who started the original thread... guilty as charged. Bearing in mind my EXTREME opposition to the location of this mosque, it may come as a surprise that I believe that BO's stance on the matter is understandable as well as one that any politician who understands our laws should say.

They do have the right to build on private property. Is it right? In my heart of hearts I believe that this move by the Cordoba Initiative is divisive and provocative to say the least. The proximity to Ground Zero will do anything but create productive interfaith discussions as claimed by Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf (IMHO). It would be nice if his comments about America playing a role in 9/11 and his support of sharia law were made public, but our media will not broadcast that (although I did see a Fox interview with the imam's wife where some of it was brought up).

As for BO... this is something that he is obligated to say, no head of state would say otherwise (I believe).

:agree:

Having done my research, I think the Cordoba Initiative is not totally benign. But they have a right to build what they want. This is America after all.

[f3rr37]

I have said my piece on this numerous times. You can't suspend the constitution to suit your sentiments. You just can't. Would it be more appropriate to place it elsewhere, yeah, but the President is right (I loathe the man, but he is). I don't like it, but I hate the idea of the government telling anyone what they can do with their property.

+1 :thumb:

[buckett]

This is like them rubbing salt into an already gaping wound... And the president did do the constitutional thing, so I guess there is one thing that I can't completely despise him for. :puke:

[SeaHawkDriver-B]

I'm sure the Muslims wouldn't mind if we built a pig farm/slaughterhouse/Oscar Meyer Weiner factory in downtown Mecca. Oh, thats right, freedom and tolerence only go one way in our world, against anyone white, christian, heterosexual, and male.

I dont have a problem with anyone building a place of worship anywhere; however, its easy to see right through what these wealthy Saudi-backed Muslims are trying to do, which is spit in the eye of America. I hope they build their mosque wherever they want to, and I hope they suffer the consequences and costs of doing so. I hope that the construction unions boycott it; I hope they are bogged-down with bureaucratic red-tape; I hope they have to bribe and grease the palms of everyone along the way. I hope that people protest, pickett, and down-rigth riot outside the stpuid place all the time. I hope people deface the the place with graffitti, throw rocks through windows, and burn effogies of the Imam on daily basis. If they have the right to build a Muslim temple of worship on top of the graves of 3000+ American Christians slaughtered in cold blood, in the name is Islam, then we have the right to let them know what we think. Freedom goes both ways, even if the American communist left don't want it to. Eventually they'll leave, and if its Jihad they want, I say we give them Jihad. You wouldn't believe what a bunch of little girls would run the other direciton if America actually Jihaded-their asses back into the stoneage, where they came from a mere 4 decades ago.

Let me tell you what I KNOW about Muslims from the Arab world, and I don't care if you think i'm stereotyping, becuase I know through my first-hand experience with them how they behave. Arab Muslims are a very arrogant and brash bunch if they think they have the upper hand. They'll surround you in groups if they outnumber you. They'll grab a rock and stone a mere child to death if they can get away with it, and everyone else is doing it. They live by mob mentality and have very little shame when it comes to doing harm to their enemies or people they don't like. They'll stab you in the back in a heartbeat... they'll wait until you turn around before pulling a gun... they'll hide in a dark corner and wait for you to walk by before attacking. But if you ever just grab ahold of the individual Arab Muslim, grab him by the scruff of the neck and call-his-bluff, when he's not surrounded by 10 of his friends, he'll cower like a little girl. I've watched dozens of Arab Muslims bow down and kiss the feet of someone they're actually afraid of. Arabs respect power; if they fear you, they won't F with you, period... end of story. Its only when they dont fear reprisals for their actions are they so bold and tend to rant about honor and dignitiy.... Honor and dignity MY ASS!!! They turn into weaklins at the first sing of getting their butts handed to them. This i KNOW, I've seen it a million times, and every ounce of our "hospitality" is nothing but a sign of weakness to them.

[SHEEPDOG]

I have said my piece on this numerous times. You can't suspend the constitution to suit your sentiments. You just can't. Would it be more appropriate to place it elsewhere, yeah, but the President is right (I loathe the man, but he is). I don't like it, but I hate the idea of the government telling anyone what they can do with their property.

I agree that we can't suspend the Constitution. I hope the get to build it there every time it burns. I hope it pisses off everyone who walks past it. I hope someone posts cameras and document everyone who goes in and out. I hope the people of NY protest there everyday. I hope they boycott every company that woks on this building. I hope the mob gets involved and uses everything they control to stop the project.

My other point is to deport al muslims that are not US citizens. Suspend all visas, deport all with expired visas. Get them out of here any legal way we can. Make them so uncomfortable so they won't want to be here. This "religion" is sworn to eliminate us.

If someone comes and knocks on you front door a swears they are going to do everything they can to kill you and your family, are you going to tell them to have a nice day and send them on their way?

How is it we can find one cow in this country with mad cow disease but we can't find eight million illegal aliens?

[SHEEPDOG]

Good luck with that happening. Money talks and they could always get all muslim contractors to build it and thus possibly begins a race/religious war. I think the a new location should be looked and and then everyone is happy

This is a race/religious war and we didn't start it.

[CenCalSplicer]

Good luck with that happening. Money talks and they could always get all muslim contractors to build it and thus possibly begins a race/religious war. I think the a new location should be looked and and then everyone is happy

This is a race/religious war and we didn't start it.

:agree: , but we don't have leadership in place to stop it. I will be 100% amazed if they decide to build somewhere else.

[CenCalSplicer]

I guess this sums it up for alot of folks:

[SHEEPDOG]

:agree:

[f3rr37]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/17/ ... ompromise/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CenCalSplicer]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/17/ ... ompromise/

Looks like possibly a move in the right direction. A good news story as long as Bloomberg and Obama don't stir the pot.